Author Topic: Rift: Planes of Telara vs. Guild Wars 2  (Read 3789 times)

Bellofici

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Rift: Planes of Telara vs. Guild Wars 2
« on: August 17, 2010, 09:21:18 am »
Still researching, and I know a few who like the EQ2/Vanguard model of MMOs are more for Planes of Telara, but I've been impressed with a lot of the work being done on GW2.

Looking ahead to 2011 MMOs, what are people's thoughts around these two games?
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Quethel

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Re: Rift: Planes of Telara vs. Guild Wars 2
« Reply #1 on: August 17, 2010, 10:03:18 am »
I really don't know anything about any of the MMOs coming up. Letting someone else do the leg work these days :)
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JoanGault

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Re: Rift: Planes of Telara vs. Guild Wars 2
« Reply #2 on: August 17, 2010, 10:52:14 am »
Wait...There are OTHER mmos out there?
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Sionell

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Re: Rift: Planes of Telara vs. Guild Wars 2
« Reply #3 on: August 17, 2010, 04:22:03 pm »
Been pretty much MMO free for a yr or so now :P  Amazing how games like DAO and ME2 take you away...  Though Rifts will probably be the next one i check out.  A lot of the better old school EQ2 devs who got fed up with way SOE was taking EQ2 are on it, and are already keeping up with people on the eq2flames boards.  Back in the day they actually trolled eq2flames for players suggestions and listened (most of these being world/server first raiding guilds), till it all blew up and SOE forbid them to to talk on there again :P 

Bellofici

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Re: Rift: Planes of Telara vs. Guild Wars 2
« Reply #4 on: September 08, 2010, 08:50:56 am »
Probably the best written summary of GW2 that I can find.  I'm actually really interested in this game.  Probably a case like Vanguard - over promises and under delivering but we shall see...

Some highlights -

•   PvE focus, with interesting 'World v World' PvP - The Mists (massive battlefield with castles, resources, etc. Sounds like Frontiers from DAoC.  Interesting read)
•   No dedicated healing class - each class/profession has some level of self healing skills along with crowd control and support skills
•   Skill Interaction - some skills can be combined between classes for further affect (like ranger arrows firing through Elementalist fire adds burning damage)
•   Sidekick system - levels/power will scale based upon content and people they are playing with; their way of addressing balancing in world PvP and to prevent griefing
•   Questing - No traditional questing as we know it; quests replaced by dynamic events - these environmental events will scale based upon number of players


Full review -

The World
Set some 250 years after the original game. Tyria will be the only playable continent, the continents of Elona (Nightfall GW-Chapter 3) and Cantha (Factions – GW chapter 2) will not be included.

The game world is set to be much larger than the original game, much of the game play is said to be underwater. The lost land of Orr has risen from the depths and along with it the elder dragons have returned to pose a threat.

The world will have day/night and weather cycles. Some events will be linked to the time of day and weather cycle, some events may even effect weather.

Cost
You will need to buy the game but there will be no subscription charge, revenue will come from micro transactions similar to the current GW shop (make over, name change, fluff items and maybe skill/weapon unlocks) and by additional game content released further on.

Movement
Unlike GW1 you will be able to jump and swim. Movement will play an important role in combat.

Travel

Map travel is possible using waypoints, you unlock waypoints by exploring and finding them. Players can open the map, choose an unlocked waypoint and teleport there, much like the system in GW1. There is also an Asura gate system that allows travel between cities, these don't need to be unlocked and will have a cost.

PvE and PvP

The world of Tyria will be PvE. There are no plans to have PvP servers.
PvP is supported and will include instanced, team based games and an area known as 'The Mists' which will have massive World vs World combat. You can jump in to team based games on an equal footing with the same character level and item quality as everyone else.

The Mists is a massive battlefield that players of all levels can jump in to and participate at their current level, Making gains in The Mists will unlock bonuses for your server. Players are allowed to switch servers but there will be limits to ensure balance for the Mists.

World V World PvP
World vs World, WvW, World PvP or Casual PvP, is a mode of Player versus Player combat which takes place in the Mists. Worlds, or servers, are randomly matched up against two other worlds. Those match-ups will be rotated every week to match worlds against those of similar strength. The combat is open and features many objectives and roles which players can do; "players may decide to fight alone against a supply caravan, join a single group and capture a mine or create a large alliance to assault one of the numerous fortress that could give an advantage in the zone." The battle is on a large scale, where hundreds of people can fight on each side in week-long battles.

Each opposing world starts out with castles, mercenary camps, mines, lumber mills and villages. Separating the starting zones are neutral zones controlled by no one, also containing fortresses, mines, and villages.

The resources gained from mines and lumber mills are used to rebuild walls, create siege engines, and generally defend the team's fortress.

These territories and control points will confer benefits to the world that controls them; "maybe everyone gets increased energy regeneration or healing rate or enhanced loot drop rate." Players can gain experience and level their character in World PvP. Guilds will be able to take and hold keeps.

Players are free to come and go from the battle as they please and there is no limit to the number of players entering. Players enter with a character of any level and use skills they have available to that character. Characters can enter as a sidekick which will allow them to play as a higher level character.

World PvP is intended as a casual form of PvP, designed to be a more relaxed bridging point between PvE and the tactics and pressure of structured PvP. It is hoped that players of any level or PvP experience can participate and be useful.

Races
There are five playable races and each will have its own starting city and have their own racial abilities, they are:

Humans - Once the dominant species Humans are now in decline, the capital city of Divinity's Reach in Kryta, ruled by Queen Jennah, is their last stronghold. They look to their allies and former enemies (The Charr) to secure their place in the world and overcome the dangers posed by the elder dragons.
Abilities: Most of the human abilities in the game call upon the power of their six gods. These abilities can ask for a small favor such as the "prayer to Dwayna," which heals the player. Some of the human abilities ask for major intervention from the gods, such as the one that summons the two fiery hounds of Balthazar to come to the player's aid.

Charr – originally the arch enemy of the humans, the Charr have ceased hostilities in an uneasy alliance to fight the greater foe
Abilities: The charr use technology, explosives, and sheer ferocity in battle. Whether laying down a "shrapnel mine" or using a mighty "battle roar," the charr are a force to be reckoned with. Charr also use advanced tactics, such as calling upon warband support to overwhelm their foes with numbers.
Charr walk on two legs while wielding weapons, without weapons they run on all fours.

Asura – small pointy eared creatures with a strong sense of self, who look down on other races and often each other. They have developed their own technology which includes the creation of magical, mechanical creatures known as golems. They originally rose from their underground dwellings during the story line of 'Eye of the North' the first and only true expansion for Guild Wars (EotN was the replacement for the 4th chapter which was abandoned after Anet decided to focus on the new game GW2)
Abilities:The abilities of the asura have a lot to do with golems and magic. An asura player might use a simple "arcane blast" or create a deadly "radiation field." If they are really in a bind, they can summon a magical "golem battlesuit" that they can climb into and use to devastate their foes.

Norn – a tall strong independent race who have the ability to shapeshift, they are a proud warrior race and also made their first appearance in EotN. The Norn skill bar will change to reflect the form they have shapeshifted to.
Abilities:The norn rely on individual feats of strength and their faith in the spirits of the wild. Their link to nature allows them to "call upon bear" to increase their health or "call upon raven" to attack their foes. When the situation calls for it, they can assume snow leopard form to wreak havoc on the field of battle.

Sylvari – a new 'emergent race' who developed from a magical tree which produced cocoons from which they emerged, these new creatures share a common consciousness, each is born from the same tree and emerges ready equipped with the knowledge of those Sylvari who have come before.
Abilities:The empathic nature of the sylvari allows them to call upon both other sylvari and all green and growing things. They can use the "blessing of the pale tree" to protect themselves or cause an enemy to "take root," immobilizing them. In times of great need, they can call upon the "strength of the dream" to heal themselves from critical damage.
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Bellofici

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Re: Rift: Planes of Telara vs. Guild Wars 2
« Reply #5 on: September 08, 2010, 08:53:57 am »
Professions
There will be 8 professions in GW2, so far only the Elementalist, Warrior, Necromancer and the Ranger have been confirmed, 2 out of the remaining 4 will be classes previously in the original game and 2 will be new professions. There will NOT be a dedicated healing class:

Elementalist
Warrior
Ranger
Necromancer

Healing
As mentioned previously there is no dedicated healing class, there will be support classes but it's expected these will be about prevention rather than cure, each profession will have it's own healing skills and is therefore expected to be self sufficient for healing.

Death and the the 'downed' state
When a player gets close to being defeated they enter in to a 'downed state' their skill bar will change and they will have the ability to use special skills, these are your last chance skills, skills that could save you from death, rallying from this state will take you back to your original skill bar and get you back in to the fray. All players, from level 1 will have a revive skill to resurrect fallen players. The more times a player dies the longer it takes to revive them. If you die and aren't revived you will, for a small amount of gold, be resurrected at the nearest shrine with no further penalty.

Leveling

The game will have a max level of 80, the first few levels will come quite quickly but after a point the difference in levels will plateau so that getting from say lvl 45-46 will take the same amount of time as getting from lvl 76-77.

Skills
Skills can be changed at anytime while out of combat.

Skills will have tiers that can be unlocked as you progress.

The players skill bar will have ten skill slots, the first 5 skill slots are for weapon skills dependent on what the player is wielding (a warrior wielding a mace will have a different weapon skill set to a a warrior wielding a sword), if a player is wielding a sword and an off hand then the skills change accordingly while a two handed weapon will dictate all 5 slots , the player can also use 'environmental weapons' such as rocks which in turn change the weapon skill slots. The next 5 skill slots will be restricted by having one healing skill and one elite skill, the player is free to slot the remaining 3 of those 5 with class and racial skills.

Getting Skills
The majority of skills can be obtained from skill traders while some Elite Skills will be world drops.

Interactivity

Skills will be interactive and offer a synergy between players, examples such as rangers firing arrows through an elementalist's fire wall will add burning damage and in the 'Manifesto' video a gun is seen to be firing through a static field to add electrical damage.

Traits
Trait lines are similar to the profession attribute lines in the original game (as an example, in GW a necromancer had the choice between Curses, Blood Magic, Soul Reaping and Death Magic dependent on attribute points spent). Traits are slottable and can be earned through quests, they are used to modify your skills and attributes, Traits can be used to increase your weapon mastery or decrease time between swapping weapons in combat . Each profession has a couple of 'trait lines' how you slot your traits defines how you choose to play your character.

Attributes
Strength (melee power)
Agility (ranged power)
Intelligence (magic power)
Vitality (health)
Perception (critical chance)
Willpower (energy)

Achievements

Completing or mastering something will provide you with an achievement, some achievements will also provide you with a title that you will be able to display. Achievements are account based rather than character based as some, like mastering all weapons, can't be achieved by a single character. Achievements provide no game advantage.

The demo contained the following list of achievement groups
•   Slayer
•   Party Animal
•   Weapon Master
•   Explorer
•   Adventurer
•   Conqueror
•   Trader
•   Hero
The achievement groups expanded to reveal multiple progress bars, for example the Weapon Master group had one progress bar for each weapon type.

Combat
Combat in Guild Wars 2 is built around damage, control and support. Damage is simply decreasing the enemy's health, control is preventing the enemy from doing what it wants, and support consists of boosting the abilities of allies. Each profession is able to perform any of these roles.

Combat will be tactical in terms of movement, taking advantage of the environment and by using cross-profession combos (see previous example of elementalist static field being fired through by a warrior using a gun to add electrical damage). There will be many environmental weapons littered about the world from simple rocks to a jar of bees that can be thrown at an enemy, some of these environmental weapons will react differently depending on which profession picks them up.

Body blocking can only be replicated through the use of skills, there is no collision between characters in GW2.

Players will be able to dodge attacks and projectiles.

Some skills will have tactical advantages when used from the side or behind an opponent, other skills will be directional, AoE or a mix of both meaning positioning will be important.

Armour
The type of Armour you wear depends on your profession type:
Scholars will wear Light Armour
Adventurers will wear Medium Armour
Soldiers will wear Heavy Armour

You will be able to dye your armour and players will be able to have 3 separate hues on each armour piece.

Dye System
In the demo an armour upgrade item was rewarded from an event, it's looked like this system might be similar to the current GW Insignia system but instead of one upgrade, the item had several stat boosts.

Weapons
The list of standard wieldable weapons is as follows:
One-Handed: Axe, dagger, mace, pistol, scepter, and sword.
Two-Handed: Greatsword, hammer, longbow, rifle, shortbow, and staff.
Offhand only: Focus, shield, torch, and warhorn.

Not all professions will be able to wield all weapons and some professions will be able to wield more weapons than others.

A weapon wielded as an off-hand will have different skills to that same weapon wielded in the main hand, not all professions will be able to wield a weapon as an off hand.

Environmental objects will also be able to be used as weapons and have their own skill set, which may differ depending on the profession wielding it.

Interface
Everything we know about the interface is taken from demo videos at gamescom. The devs have stated that it's a work in progress and that there will be some player customization.

The interface also had a compass at the bottom right of the screen, it showed pointers to the direction of current objectives.

Guilds
Players will have the choice of either keeping their characters in the same guild or having different characters in different guilds. There will be guild achievements and guilds will be able to hold keeps in WvW PVP, there will be a guild calendar for coordinating events and you will be able to participate in guild chat from any web browser without logging in to the game.

Sidekick System
A sidekick is when a character's level is modified to match the level of the other characters they are playing with. A character wanting to play higher level content will have their power scaled to similar to the higher level characters they are with. This also applies in reverse, a character wanting to play lower level content will have their level scaled down so they do not overly disrupt lower level content but can still experience content they may have missed when they were a lower level.

The sidekick system has been mentioned for characters entering World PvP and also for preventing griefing of low level PvE events by high level players.

Quests and the Dynamic Event system.

There will be no NPC's with exclamation marks above their heads, quests have been replaced with a dynamic events system. Instead of picking up a traditional quest players will need to pay attention to their environment, visual clues such as the appearance of invading hordes or an NPC running out to call for help as well as more subtle clues such as changes to the environment will be the entry points for players to join in these events. Events are set to scale depending on player numbers, player level will not bar successful and meaningful involvement in these events, a higher level player can join lower level events and will find their skill level adjusted so that, while still being a little over powered for the event, they shouldn't be able to steam roll the event.

Events are dynamic and one event will effect other events further down the line, players always have the choice as to their level of involvement and which events to get involved in. NPC's will remember when a player has helped them out in the past and react differently after the event.

Players do not need to party to gain rewards from participating in an event, all players who participate will receive a reward, the majority of these rewards will consist of Karma and Gold, the player is then free to choose what items to spend it on.

It has been stated this events system means a player could visit the same area several times and not find the same events happening.

The events system eliminates kill stealing and encourages group play through the scaling dynamic, the more players the more interesting the fight can become.

There is a 'scout' NPC that will be able to tell you of the potential trouble spots in the local area to help you find possible events
Examples:
Centaurs may attack a village, players can help save the village or let it be captured, the centaurs could then set up base and try to expand without further player intervention in to surrounding territory. If the players defended the village there is nothing to say that the centaurs won't keep trying.

A player may return to a previously visited watermelon field to find the crops destroyed, the farmer may be calling for help to fight off an invader, at the same time the player has noticed the watermelons have gone because the field is over run by rabbits, on further investigation traps/cages may be found in that field, the player has the choice of either fending off the invading mob or help capture the rabbits.

Instances and Open World

The majority of the game will take place in a massive open world, each player also has their own personal storyline, these will be instanced but you can choose to invite friends to help you or just to come visit. Dungeons are also instanced.

Dungeons
Dungeons are designed for five players. Instead of random loot drops players will be able to predict how many times they will need to complete an instance to get what they need. Nothing of 'end game' content has been mentioned, it may be that like the original game the harder instances (like The Deep and Urgoz's Warren) may have an increased player number or it may remain five person.

Personal Storyline and NPC interaction

At character creation you have the opportunity to make choices and develop a back story prior to entering the game, these choices will dictate how your personal story line plays out and how NPC's interact with you. Those choices will never lock you out of nor restrict your content in the open world and main story line.

Your instanced personal story line and the environment in your personal instance will change according to your choices. You could start off as a mild mannered type but later decide you have had enough and decide that the best way to get through is by force, choosing to punch your way to information rather than using diplomacy, that will earn you a reputation in the wider world, so while merchants may not like you they'll still do business with you. In the demo the three character traits that contributed to your personality development were:
•   charisma
•   dignity
•   ferocity

Your choices in the instanced personal storyline also effects your environment within it. Inviting friends lets them experience a different side to the personal story that they may not have got to have seen.

Karma
Karma is a currency, develop it by doing good deeds, taking part in events and helping lower level players and you can use it to buy goods. During the demo successful completion of some events spawned a merchant NPC who sold special items for karma.
You can of course choose to ignore most of these RP elements and just get on with the game.

Player Housing

As part of the personal storyline players will have a home instance, this will be about the size of a city block within your racial city. Within that home instance players will have the racial equivalant of a house (Asura may have an Asuran lab). You will be able to invite other players in to your home.

Crafting
I've seen very little on this subject apart from this quote on massively.com

“Crafting will play a very large role in Guild Wars 2, and while weapons and armor will be a big part of the base of the items that players create, we are doing our best to ensure that players don't have to make a lot of anything that they can use only one of. For example, in Guild Wars 2 you will not have to craft the same sword 10-20 times just to level up your crafting skill. Hopefully our players will find that the only reasons they have to craft any given item more than once are because they can actually use it more than once, because they want to give it to a friend, or because they want to sell it for profit. With this goal in mind it does of course mean we have our work cut out for us when it comes to other interesting items to craft, and we have already spent a lot of time exploring in areas such as upgrade components that can be used to improve existing items beyond the condition that they were originally found or crafted in.”

Mini Games
Each major town will have it's own mini games, these are social activities that aren't dependant on character level, they will vary in their mechanics from complex games of skill, simple target practise, solo games, multiplayer and full on no rules bar brawls. They will carry rewards, for example during the bar brawl you may be rewarded by the local dentist by handing in teeth you've knocked out the mouth of your opponents. It's intended that these are fun past times that can step out side the normal rules of the wider game.

Auction Houses
There will be an auction house and it will be accessible from outside the game, you can monitor and bid from a web browser interface without entering the game.
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Bellofici

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Re: Rift: Planes of Telara vs. Guild Wars 2
« Reply #6 on: September 08, 2010, 02:20:50 pm »
Interesting comment from ArenaNet that got me so interested in the World v World PvP concept.  Can't help but like the DAoC reference...

 MMORPG.com:
   
You talked a lot about camaraderie among players. Many MMOs have lost this on a wide level because of guild groups and smaller factions. How do you see players joining up on a large scale in Guild Wars 2?


Colin:
   
I think Dynamic Events is the thing that will do that. That is the glue in the bond that brings the players together. I think that will give you recognition when you start to build that sense of community. The other thing that I think is important and this is not a direct answer, but we have World vs. World PvP in Guild Wars 2. I think that will impact PvE as well. Which is your server shard matched up against two other servers in open world PvP. If you like Dark Age of Camelot, this is, in our minds the next evolution of that. It is something that really drove community and you care about what you are doing on a PVE and PvP side. You care about the people on the server. We think we will have those bonds because your server is matched up against two other servers. So it is just that much more important that you become friends and you bond with the players on your server. So the friends you make through PvE and Dynamic Events, those friends will carry over into World vs. World PvP. You may get out of World vs. World PvP and go back to early zones to do events with new people and help encourage them to join you in the fight for your server to take part in battles and beat the other two. We expect large strong communities on each server and I think PvP will end up affecting PvE because people will work together.
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shavas

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Re: Rift: Planes of Telara vs. Guild Wars 2
« Reply #7 on: September 09, 2010, 12:53:25 pm »
sounds interesting.. will have to keep an eye on gw2.
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Bellofici

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Re: Rift: Planes of Telara vs. Guild Wars 2
« Reply #8 on: September 22, 2010, 09:43:48 pm »
For those that are interesting in Trion's Rift: Planes of Telara, beta keys are being given away through a 4-part comic series.  This game also has a lot of promise.  While containing some of the new/fresh ideas of persisent events like GW2, Rift is much more of a traditional MMO in structure.  Sionell is spot on when he suggests in a previous thread that a lot of EQ fans are looking at this release.  The way I see it, this game is essentially the closest thing to EQ3.  The beta keys should be included starting mid next week -


Fans of Rift: Planes of Telara may want to jet to the nearest comic store and pick up the first of a four-part comic based on the game world. In addition to the comic, players also have the opportunity to pick up issue zero that comes with a beta key. Check out the cover art we've picked up for you too!



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Bellofici

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Re: Rift: Planes of Telara vs. Guild Wars 2
« Reply #9 on: September 26, 2010, 05:58:00 pm »
So GW2's website still has no information on release date.  Rumors are out that it's Oct/Nov 2010, others are Oct/Nov 2011.   Some more general sites say sometime in Q1 of 2011.

All that being said, GameStop is taking pre-orders for shiop on Nov 2nd of this year, yes 2010.  WTF, I've never seen this level of cluster f*ck around a release.  I dont' see how they could hit a ship date of 11/2 when we are still missing a few classes/professions and have yet to report any closed or open beta.  I think GameStop is falsely aggressive here on their ship dates.
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Industry

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Re: Rift: Planes of Telara vs. Guild Wars 2
« Reply #10 on: September 27, 2010, 12:35:30 pm »
Oct/Nov 2011 is realistic.  It will not ship before 2011.  Way too much to test internally to ship before a beta.
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Re: Rift: Planes of Telara vs. Guild Wars 2
« Reply #11 on: September 27, 2010, 02:26:58 pm »
Yeah I agree.  Q4 2011 does seem like a long time based upon where they are in the engineering process, but I can't see a 2010 release unless they plan on shipping it with 2/3rds the classes.

I'm expecting maybe beta to begin Nov 2010 with a release date of March/April, but we shall see.  Maybe more info will come out of Comic Con in NY in 2 weeks.
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shavas

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Re: Rift: Planes of Telara vs. Guild Wars 2
« Reply #12 on: September 27, 2010, 02:48:55 pm »
sometime next year be the best bet i would think. Pitty diablo 3 be out then as well....
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Quethel

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Re: Rift: Planes of Telara vs. Guild Wars 2
« Reply #13 on: September 28, 2010, 09:03:35 am »
The world PvP is pretty interesting to me, but Guild Wars is such a competitive style of PvP I'm not sure how it will go over. I'll keep an eye on it. I found the first one was a bit too MMO-lite for me. I don't much care for a gear grind but I have to admit that it does make a leveling grind go by faster. I know in GW1 there was basically no loot/items to speak of and that made the game seem a lot grindier.
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Re: Rift: Planes of Telara vs. Guild Wars 2
« Reply #14 on: September 28, 2010, 11:00:38 am »
I played so little of GW1 that I don't have much of a personal impression, but based upon a lot of the comments and demos, I'm seeing less in common between these two games.

They have directly come out and stated some things for GW2 that is counter to the gameplay of GW1.

For example, gear grinding as you mentioned doesn't really play a role in GW2 to the same extent.  they are implementing a system of maximum number of times you will need to run through an instance to achieve what you are looking for.  Granted, I'm sure rare items maybe something that requires a lot of repetition, but at least the logic will be in place ahead of time so that you can do a fairly safe assumption on the maximum number of times you will need to run through it to get the desired item.  It then becomes a judgment call on if you want to invest the time or not.

Level grinding is also something that they have changed dramatically.  The way I read it (and I could be dead wrong) is that since they aren't doing your traditional quests, these dynamic events will scale regardless of your level.  So if you are level 5 and do an event that gives enough XP to go to level 6, I would expect if a lvl 10 joined you, they too would get enough XP to go to lvl 11.  I'm reading that through the side-kick logic, but again I could be wrong.
We anti violent, anyone says different, I'll bust a cap in their ass.